Centaur Triple Carbon Elite Takedown Review
Carbon Elite 58"AMO 51#@28" with XTL and Takedown options
Ever since I shot the one-piece Carbon Elite stock bow, I knew I would eventually progress to the full-tilt Triple Carbon with takedown option. If you have read my earlier review of the stock version of the Centaur Carbon Elite, you know how much I like Centaur longbows. Jim is a master craftsman and the 15+ month wait for one of his bows is testament to his skills. It is also evident that owners of Centaur bows really like them as you rarely ever see them up for sale on the classifieds of archery forums. If you do, they often get snatched up pretty quickly once posted up.
Before I got in queue for a custom bow from Jim, I decided to first try the Archery Talk classifieds to see if I couldn't scare up a gently used Centaur that fit my parameters. A few weeks of sitting in the classifieds, my wanted ad scored a hit and I was contacted by a gentleman in Wyoming who had a Triple Carbon takedown he was interested in selling. The bow was a tad heavier in draw weight than I would have ordered in a custom bow, but all the other parameters matched up. A deal was struck and the bow was in my hands a week later. Despite being a touch on the heavy side for draw weight, I was able to save a lot of cash and avoid the long wait. Not bad!
*** 3/2/2016 Update ***
Check out the update at the end of this review. I ended up taking over someone's spot in line for an early 2016 custom build and now have a truly custom-for-me Triple Carbon Elite.
- Riser -
All of the takedown Centaurs of recent feature a riser made of a very strong and dense material Jim calls, "Dark Matter". The material is a special kind of resin that is made up of glass fibers in a specific orientation set in epoxy, according to the website. Whatever it is, Dark Matter is tough and dense, making for a very solid bow. The material is also a jet black color, giving the bow a very cool stealth aesthetic. Picking up the bow, it is very noticeably heavier than the stock Carbon Elite that has an Actionwood riser. Part of it is from the Dark Matter, but some of the heft is from the steel pins, bushing, and bolts used in the takedown system. All together, this particular takedown feels very solid and stable. In addition to the Dark Matter, there are two accent flares on the back and belly sides of the riser. I am not sure what woods they are, but they appear to be bubinga, guessing from the color and grain. To give an idea of how much heavier the Dark Matter takedown bow is, the one-piece 58" longbow I have weighs 18 ounces, while this model weighs 28 ounces. A 10 ounce gain makes a significant difference in stability.
The back side of the grip. Here you can see the wavy lines of the laminations where the finger grooves used to be. Also, note the seam where the bow takes down.
Being that this was once a custom ordered bow, it was made to fit someone else's hand and not mine. I found that very evident in how much larger and more widely spaced the finger grooves were compared to the ones on my stock Carbon Elite Jim customized for me. That said, the grip wasn't massive, but the finger grooves did interfere with how my fingers wrapped around it, and that would likely result in some less accurate shooting. Being that I would likely not ever sell this bow, I decided to modify the grip to better suit my hand. After consulting with Jim and another bowyer, I decided to do the modification myself and simply soften the finger grooves so they would still be present, but not bothersome to my hand. Part of the impetus for modifying the grip was the finish was wearing off on some of the peaks of the grooves and other parts of the grip. There were also some scuffs and few minor dings here and there. I figured I could refinish the bow, and if I was going to do that effort, I might as well make it "my" bow and alter the grip to suit. More about how I modified the grip in the tuning section.
Note the broadhead engraving and the clean stippling lines.
Aside from the finger grooves, the grip was also stippled and featured engravings of turkey tracks on the belly side and a single-bevel Simmons broadhead on the left side. Jim is not only a master bowyer, but also an artist! The broadhead looks exactly like the real thing. It had enough detail that I could immediately tell it was a single-bevel head at a glance. The rest of the grip fit my hand fairly well with the palm swell feeling a tad pronounced, but it was comfortable and I was hesitant to cut into the stippling. I had never been a fan of stippling, but the stippling done on this bow felt pretty good and gave my hand a solid non-slip grip. I am not sure if this particular bow's grip is thicker around the throat due to the original owner's hands being larger, or if Jim needs to make the grip thicker to accommodate the takedown system. Given a choice, I would prefer a slimmer grip and grip throat similar to what is on my one-piece Carbon Elite. Again, for being a bespoke bow and for how quickly I received it, I can't complain too much.
Turkey tracks engraving on the palm swell and stippling make for an attractive and functional grip. Again, note the seam for the take down system.
View of the right side showing the two bolts holding everything together.
- Takedown System -
Centaur's takedown system is a bit more unique than most of the other 2-piece systems. The riser is cut lengthwise down the middle of the riser from the shelf with the cut following a sagittal plane and makes a 45 degree curve out to the side, exiting below the grip. It is kind of hard to visualize, but once you see it, it makes sense. The two halves are keyed together by way of three steel pins, and the entire assembly is secured using two bolts.
This image, taken from the Centaur website, illustrates the takedown system better than words can describe
Conceptually, this takedown system makes a lot of sense to me. Most other takedown longbows have a cut made in the middle of the riser perpendicular to the length or at an angle within a sleeve. Compared to these takedown methods, Centaur's takedown system spreads out the stresses over a wider area and among more contact points - the steel pins and the bolts. Although the system does require a hex wrench, it is by no means inconvenient to disassemble and reassemble.
One other point I would make regarding the takedown system is that it is not hidden at all. The seam where the two halves meet is visible, but not detracting from the bow's aesthetics. The two bolts are recessed into the grip, but also visible from the side at a glance. From afar, one likely could not tell the bow is a takedown. Ideally, I would prefer a hidden takedown system that is also tool-less like the sleeve socket system used by some other bowyers like Sky, Big Jim, Black Widow, etc. However, this system works and there is no chance the two halves will accidentally separate, even when the bow is unbraced. So long as the bolts are snugged down, it is a one-piece bow as far as I am concerned.
The two halves separated. Just like on the Centaur Archery website.
- Limbs -
The limbs are the workhorse of any bow and this particular model of Centaur sports a triple carbon limb - a woven back lam, the XTL core lam, and the special belly lam. Centaur bows come in three different flavors - Glass, Chimera, and Carbon Elite. The Glass model is just that - a bow with glass belly and back laminations. The Chimera has Centaur's special woven carbon back lamination with a glass belly, and the Carbon Elite features the woven carbon back lam with a special carbon belly lam designed for compression. Each model up offers improved performance over the former.
There is sort of a flavor 3.5 and that is the Carbon Elite with the addition of the XTL. The XTL stands for "eXtreme Torsional Lamination" and is a core lamination designed to stiffen the riser and increase efficiency and stability while providing a stronger overall limb. All that means the XTL will likely give you a better shooting bow. The addition of the XTL makes for a Triple Carbon Elite that delivers the best of what Centaur has to offer in terms of performance. Honestly, if one is ordering up a custom Carbon Elite from Jim, the $75 XTL option is a must-have.
Aside from the carbon laminations, all Centaur longbows feature bamboo limb cores. Bamboo has been a core of choice for a number of bowyers and archers. Many feel it offers a smooth draw with a little more speed than maple cored limbs. I am not an experienced enough archer to tell the difference - just repeating some of the things I have read on various archery forums. In fact, bamboo is not a wood at all, but is a grass by definition. Whatever it is, the material works as the Centaur bows are solid shooters.
Braced profile presents as a mild R/D profile that looks good and performs wonderfully
As with the Carbon Elite, the Triple Carbon Elite is a reflex/deflex longbow. If you are unfamiliar with the term, it refers to the profile of the bow where the riser is deflexed back towards the shooter to give a better handling riser, but the limbs are reflexed forwards away from the shooter to give the bow greater performance than a straight limbed Hill style longbow. The R/D profile is more pronounced when the bow is unbraced, but even when braced, one can see how the limbs have sections where they do not follow one continuous curve like the traditional D-shape of a straight limbed longbow. This design allows greater performance, smoother draw, and a longer draw length out of a shorter bow.
Unbraced profile shows the reflexed limb design
- Tuning -
This review is the first one I have done since we moved to a larger house. In this new house, I have a basement and it is a nice long one spanning the full length of the house. Wall to wall, the basement gives me about 13 yards and giving up a yard or two for the thickness of the targets and me not standing up against the wall, I will have a good 11 or so yards to shoot with. Not too bad for a basement/mancave indoor range.
The mancave range. A few target blocks at one end and my bows at the other. If I had a good 20 yards and a taller ceiling, this would be the perfect indoor range.
With such a range available to me, I headed down to my cave once the kids were in bed and my wife was busy watching her evening TV dramas. The string that came with the bow was well used and heavily waxed up by the previous owner. I figured the heavy coat of wax was surely going to rob the bow of some performance, so I swapped it out with a new one that was also from Centaur. It is my opinion that the flemish Strings sold by Centaur are among the best, since they are made by master string maker, Rick Barbee. As a result, I often keep an extra one or two of these strings to use on my other bows. I quickly got the new string twisted up to proper brace and set up my nock locators and ran some bareshafts through the bow to ascertain my nock height.
Being that this is a 2nd handed bow, I did not have the luxury to customize the draw weight to my liking. The bow is rated 51#@28", but my digital scale indicates an average of 46#@27". I doubt Jim's scale is off and I also doubt the bow would gain 5# in the last inch of draw. I do know that bowyers often have a +/-2# tolerance in hitting the desired draw weight, so it is possible the bow is actually pulling about 49#@28". Despite my reservations about the marked draw weight, my subjective observations of it are that it does not feel like it should be 51#@28". I anticipated to see 48-49# at 27" since longbows usually gain about 2-3# per inch. At any rate, I am very pleased at the lower draw weight as I prefer my bows to scale in the low to mid 40# range so they will be able to use my existing stock of arrows and I won't get too worn out after a range session. The lower draw weight also helps me hold more steady at anchor and shoot more accurately.
The Triple Carbon Elite is cut to center and the addition of a soft sided Velcro pad for the strike plate pushes the arrow out before center. This has the effect of stiffening a given arrow and I found the bow to shoot well with my GameGetter 500 shafts. Despite being listed as a 500 spine, the actual spine measurement is .531 as listed on Easton's website. I found this arrow to work well for bows drawing in the low 40# range, but they usually end up showing weak once a bow eclipses 45#, especially at the 30" length I am using. Out of the Centaur, these arrows did show a bit weak with 125 gr. points, but the bareshafts grouped in with the fletched arrows for the most part.
Easton Legacy 2018. 20/64" diameter and 0.018" wall thickness. The wood grain finish is a nice touch.
Being a perfectionist, I decided to move up in spine and used Easton Legacy 2018 shafts. Unlike the GameGetters, the Legacy shafts are labelled according to the proper aluminum shaft 4-digit sizing. If you are unfamiliar with them, the first two digits denote the arrow outside diameter in 64ths of an inch, so 20/64" or 5/16" diameter. The second two digits denote the wall thickness in thousandths of an inch so 0.018" wall thickness. The two different parameters allow for a great deal of spine variations among the various sizes, allowing for shafts to fall "in-between" spines. The 2018 shaft size equates to a .464 spine, which ought to work out nicely with the Centaur's heavier draw weight. Having a thicker wall than the GameGetter 500 (which are actually 2016), the finished Legacy arrows averaged 540gr., giving me a nice 11.7GPP (grains per pound) load that should offer quiet shooting, but not be so heavy that the arrows fly like bricks tossed by a toddler. As usual, I use a 2-fletch system on my arrows as my own tests have shown them to fly as well as the standard 3-fletch, and offer the benefits of being more stackable in the quiver and more conservative with feathers. One other tweak I do with the Legacy arrows is to replace the swaged end with a nock bushing and use a press-in nock. To keep with the "traditional" theme, Easton makes the Legacies with the tapered nock end so that the nocks are glued-on like with wood shafts. I personally dislike glued-on nocks due to their permanence in position, so I used a pipe cutter and reamer to cut off the tapered end and hot-melt in a Super Uni Bushing so I can use the Super 3D nocks. Bareshaft testing with the Legacy shafts indicated I was right on with the point weight and stiffer spine. Using 125gr. points, bareshafts impacted exactly as fletched and flew without any wobble. The less correction the feathers have to do, the better and more accurately the arrow will fly.
The Legacy 2018 arrows used in this review. These are 2-fletch for improved shelf clearance. They stack nicer in the quiver and are more economical with feathers. I used 5" True-Flight shield cut feathers.
One thing I was not entirely certain of was tiller. The seller did not know if the bow was tillered for split of 3-under. A quick check with a bow square indicated a slight positive tiller of about 3/16", suggesting to me if was made for a split-finger shooter. Generally, an even tiller is used for a 3-under release, but the slight positive tiller shouldn't pose any issues. If anything, I would have to use a slightly higher nock height.
My first few shots were not the best, likely a combination of factors including "new bow syndrome", the higher draw weight, and the mismatched finger grooves. After a half hour of shooting, it was clear to me I needed to do something about the grip. The bow shot well if I used a finger sling and didn't let my fingers wrap around the grip, but I normally don't shoot my stickbows with a sling. Out came my Dremel and an assortment of sanding drums and sandpaper. I first attempted to soften the finger grooves so they would be less bothersome to my hand, but the grooves lined up just right where one peak was exactly where I put my middle finger. Additionally, I was able to fit my fingers in the space up to the groove for the original owner's ring finger. I have fairly small hands and I often find any kind of finger groove or palm swell added to a grip ends up being uncomfortable unless it is specifically customized for me.
A side profile shot of the 2-fletch arrow. Because it is completely flat on one plane, the arrows stack up neatly in the quiver and allow for increased capacity.
As I gradually sanded down the grooves, I decided to go all the way and reduce the grooves to the bare minimum. I cut no deeper than the groove valleys so as to not weaken the riser too much. Once the shape was roughed out to my liking, I smoothed and blended the cut areas to the rest of the riser and sprayed it down with several coats of matte clear coat lacquer. The resulting surface texture of the lacquer mirrored that of the original 2-part epoxy finish and the result is a bow that fits well in my hands and looks nice for an amateur job. There is still some hint of finger groove left, but nothing enough to bother me.
With the bow now fitting my hand, my shooting improved noticeably and I was hitting much closer to where I was aiming. Unfortunately, some of the lacquer did not adhere too well to the areas where the epoxy finish was already present, despite some light sanding and a wipe down with denatured alcohol prior to spraying. I suppose the durability and inertness of the epoxy finishes is why they are favored by many bowyers. At some point, I'll have to sand down the entire bow and refinish it with either clear Duracoat or some other catalysed finish spray.
- Shooting -
The Triple Carbon Elite is incredibly smooth for a bow of its length. This is a 58" bow that feels like a bow 4" longer. My Border Raptor is a very smooth drawing 62" longbow and the Centaur feels very similar to this, but not as smooth. The R/D bow design makes a huge difference, but a 58" bow is still 58" and will not be the same as a 62" bow. I experienced no issues with finger pinch and found the draw to be very manageable despite the listed weight.
I found the bow to put arrows right in line with how I was sighting down the shaft. I shoot with a 3-under release and my index finger at the corner of my mouth. This gives me a fairly high anchor and a very good sight using the arrow point to gap. Sometimes, I find bows that are cut before center or past center have points of impact a little to the left or right and I have to compensate in my aim. At 10 yards, I was smacking arrows together and even busted a few nocks.
Love that cavernous takedown bow pocket the Vista Maverick has. Just stow the bow and off you go!
I set up the chronograph and loosed a few of the Legacy arrows through it, averaging 167.2fps. This is with the bow shooting a 540 gr. arrow, so 11.7 GPP. This is a pretty decent load on any bow so I was not surprised by speeds in the high 160s. This time, I wanted to have a little more objective of a measure of bow speed so I measured an arrow and put a tiny piece of tape at 27". I could have placed the tape at 28", but that is just too far of a stretch for me and I felt the awkward draw would skew velocity readings. Pulling back to a true 27", speeds jumped up a tad to 169.3fps. Either I didn't fully draw to 27" or my draw length is just a touch shorter, I'm going to bet I was collapsing on the shot, shaving off a couple fps. Just goes to show how important a clicker can be for maintaining consistency in the draw and loose.
I found the heavier draw weight to be very manageable and actually comfortable to shoot. Even after a solid hour of shooting in the cave range, I felt no discomfort or fatigue. The added draw weight had the effect of snatching the string off my fingers with more authority, giving me what felt like a cleaner release. This is actually a very common effect with higher draw weights and many archers gravitate towards them for this reason. Unfortunately, with high draw weights come a greater likelihood of bad habits to accommodate said weight. I sometimes hear of archers who say they can only shoot a 70# bow because anything lighter shoots poorly. My personal opinion of that is they have poor form and a poor release more than anything else and use the heavy bow as a crutch to hide those shooting errors. A good archer can shoot a bow much lighter than their usual draw weight with the same level of accuracy, if not better. It all has to do with good form and shooting without bad habits.
A couple dozen arrows in the quiver and the bow make for a good day at the range. Or just stump shooting in the woods.
For a better appreciation of how the bow would do at a longer distance, I headed out to the same range where I tested the stock Carbon Elite one year ago. This time, I happened upon a number of other archers, all of which appeared to be hunters sighting in their compounds for the upcoming archery deer opener. Having the other people there meant I could not do the 170 yard long range shooting that I did with the Carbon Elite.
I found the 10 yard bale empty so I started myself there and waited till everyone was back at the line from pulling arrows. I already got some looks from the other guys who were curious about the lone longbowman. At 10 yards, I was piling up arrows into tight groups on the spray painted dots on the bale and felt pretty good about that distance. There was a 20 yard spot that was unused, so I made my way over there next to a compound archer who was fiddling with his sight. He seemed absorbed in the task of sight adjustment so I simply started shooting as soon as the line was back and clear. The first few shots ran low and I had to quickly make slight adjustments in my gap to put arrows where I was looking. By the second end, I was putting arrows on target and making neat groups, albeit not as tight as at 10 yards. The guy fiddling with his sight accomplished his task and looked up to see how I was doing. He remarked that my shooting was nothing short of incredible and that I could shoot so well without any sights or stabilizer. I thanked him for the kind words and replied it wasn't too difficult being that I used the tip of my arrow as a sight and once I found my gap, it was not much different than having a pin to put on the X. I continued to work my way out to 50 yards with the Centaur, discovering my point-on distance was approximately 30 yards. This was perfect for use as a hunting bow, being that I limit myself to nothing over 30 yards and often will not even dare attempt anything beyond 20. I greatly fear the risk of wounding an animal and will only take a shot when I am confident the arrow will go where I intend it to.
At 50 yards, I was gapping above the target, somewhere on the wooden frame supporting the bale. I found it humorous to hear a compound archer loose his arrow the same time as I, but hearing it impact the target much sooner than my arrow. I didn't get groups any smaller than a foot in diameter at 50 yards, and only managed to achieve that feat by sheer dumb luck. The majority of groups were easily a good foot and a half and larger. Obviously, I'm not all that good of an archer as that guy next to me had believed earlier. With my goals achieved at this range session, I unbolted the Centaur and packed it up neatly in my Maverick and headed back home. I won't be out hunting this year or likely the next, due to having young kids at home and family responsibilities, but I do plan to get back out in the woods at some point in the future. Hopefully, with my two boys as hunting buddies!
- Final Thoughts -
"Very cool!", were the first words that came to my mind when I cut the packing tape, opened the box, and picked up the bow. About a year since receiving the stock Carbon Elite, I had now taken ownership of the flagship model Centaur offers. This was one bow that I had put on the bucket list early on and now it can be crossed off. Well, sort of. To be honest, I'd like to have a true custom Triple Carbon Elite that Jim made specifically to my specifications and not to someone else's, but for the time being, this is plenty good and should keep me out of trouble so that I can get in queue for a new one! Perhaps....
Despite the ill-fitting grip, the bow performed very well and did even better once the grip was customized to my liking. The takedown system is innovative and will come in handy when headed out in the field or just to the range. I usually do not take down my bows unless necessary, but having that ability is very handy when one least expects. While it isn't tool-less, it is a very strong system that would likely be the last part of the bow to ever fail.
Even as a used bow that needed a little customization, it met all my expectations. Considering the 15+ month wait for a custom bow, I think I lucked out in that someone had one he was interested in selling the same time I was looking, and the specs were very close to what I was looking for. If I were to get in queue for a custom bow from Jim, I would likely request a non-stippled grip with a higher wrist, no finger grooves, and even tiller. Additionally, I would probably ask for a draw weight a few pounds less, just so the arrows would tune in a little better. Overall, I am very pleased with the bow and glad the timing of everything worked out just right.
*** 3/2/2016 Update ***
Since having acquired the Centaur in this review, I got lucky and came across a listing on the ArcheryTalk classifieds that someone was selling their spot in line for a custom longbow. The spot was coming due early 2016, so I jumped on the opportunity to have a truly custom Centaur made to my specifications.
It was around mid-February 2016 when I talked to Jim about the custom build. Having shot the triple carbon bow, I knew I wanted another one, but with a grip that suited my hand. In talking with Jim, I also discovered he offered foam cores, which are not featured on the website. Being partial to foam, I requested those and a high wrist grip. To facilitate the grip design, I submitted to Jim both a tracing of my hand along with measurements. Surprisingly, it turns out he and I have nearly identically sized hands! I also emailed him a few photos of the Dryad Epic riser that has what I feel to be among the best grips out there. Additionally, I requested bocote trim on the limb tips and grip cap for a little aesthetic touch. I never really got into trying to make my bows look like works of art. I was always of the "form follows function" mindset and preferred a bow that performed better than it looked.
Note the difference in wrist height between the two. My custom is on the left an the 2nd-handed one is on the right.
I was surprised a couple weeks later when Jim gave me a call and told me the bow was in the final steps and he was now working on the grip. I was not expecting him to be so far along in the process already. We talked in detail about the grip and what I was looking for. Since we have nearly identical hand sizes, I felt pretty confident he could sculpt it into something very comfortable. He even followed up with some photos of the grip while in-progress to get my input. I certainly did not expect this level of thoroughness from him, but it was very much appreciated.
An archer's perspective of the grips. Note how much slimmer the throat is on my custom on the left.
The Centaur landed on my doorstep in a sturdy PVC tube with PVC caps securely duct taped together. I always appreciate it very much when a bowyer goes through the trouble to pack a bow in PVC. I've heard many a horror story (and seen photos) of bows that arrived damaged or in pieces even when well packed, but in a cardboard box. I've even seen photos of one person's bow that looked like it was ran over by a vehicle. The white box had what looked like tire tracks on it! While PVC probably wouldn't stand up to being backed over by a delivery truck, it does add a good measure of durability to the package and greatly helps secure the precious contents within.
I had a feeling of deja-vu when I cut the tape on the cap and pulled out my custom Centaur. The bow was neatly tied in a 2-piece soft case along with the extra strings I had ordered. I could smell the freshly cured finish as I untied the string and pulled out the bow. I couldn't help but smile as I finally had in my hands a truly custom Centaur Triple Carbon Elite in my hands. The first stock Carbon Elite was great, the 2nd-handed take-down was even better, and this one is over the moon. Third time really is the charm!
The brothers Centaur. My custom is on the left, the 2nd-handed is in the middle, and the stock bow is on the right.
Assembling the bow was not the easiest. Being brand new, the fit of the alignment pins was tight and I really had to give it a good squeeze to approximate the two halves together. Once I had the halves together as best as I could, I hand threaded the bolts as far as they would go and tightened everything all the way down. The seam between the halves was very thin and barely noticeable. The laminations lined up pretty much perfectly. From a master bowyer like Jim, I would expect no less. The added material Jim used for the grip also had the added benefit of adding more mass to the bow. Compared to the 2nd-handed bow, this one is about an ounce and a half heavier.
Note the near-perfect alignment of the laminations between the two halves. The yellow lams on the back and belly are the bocote accents. The white lams are the foam cores.
As for the grip, I have only one word: amazing. I thought I had found my ideal grip with the Dryad risers and the wonderful pistol type grips from Border in the Covert Hunter and Raptor. However, those were stock grips from Dryad and Border. None of them had taken any measurements or tracings of my hand nor did any of them ever send me photos along the way. The grip Jim sculpted for me is like no other. It feels like a good blend of the Dryad and Border grips into one that is sized to fit my hand. The throat is slim, the wrist support is of a medium-high height, and there is a thumb rest. Additionally, there are no finger grooves or any stippling - just the way I like it. Unfortunately, I think I have now been very much spoiled in the sense that no other production bow or riser will come close to duplicating Jim's craftsmanship.
Can you see takedown seam? My photo isn't the best, but even in person, it is hard to see.
The specs of the new Centaur are similar to the 2nd-handed one I reviewed: 58" AMO, 45#@27". The performance of the earlier Centaur was certainly not lacking, and it helped build me up to shooting a few pounds more than what I normally did. Basically, I wanted a similar bow but with a grip that suited me. I also requested the sight window to be cut further past center to be accommodating to a wider spine range of arrows. Tiller on the bow was left to about 1/8" positive. Jim told me he usually runs a 1/8" positive tiller and he finds that works equally well for split-finger or 3-under releases. Both the stock and 2nd-handed Centaurs had positive tiller and shot very nicely, so I'll just stick with what worked.
To say Jim delivered is an understatement. He did a marvelous job putting together what I feel to be my ultimate 2-piece longbow. Being someone who is finicky about the grip, I believe I have found the bowyer who can make me a grip that meets my high expectations. Triple carbon construction, perfect grip, convenient takedown system, and superb performance. There is a reason for the year+ wait for one of these beauties. I can truly appreciate why.
So there we have it. I went up the step ladder of starting with a stock Carbon Elite, then snagged a nice used Triple Carbon takedown, then managed to take someone's spot in line to get a truly custom-for-me Triple Carbon takedown. All of which happened in about the time it would take to sit in the queue from beginning to end. Funny. Once I shot the stock Carbon Elite, I knew I was going to eventually progress to getting a full custom Triple Carbon model. I just never expected it to happen in such a fashion and in such rapid progression. At any rate, I am happy it did. Centaur longbows are excellent performers and Jim is an outstanding bowyer to work with.
Carbon Elite 58"AMO 51#@28" with XTL and Takedown options
Before I got in queue for a custom bow from Jim, I decided to first try the Archery Talk classifieds to see if I couldn't scare up a gently used Centaur that fit my parameters. A few weeks of sitting in the classifieds, my wanted ad scored a hit and I was contacted by a gentleman in Wyoming who had a Triple Carbon takedown he was interested in selling. The bow was a tad heavier in draw weight than I would have ordered in a custom bow, but all the other parameters matched up. A deal was struck and the bow was in my hands a week later. Despite being a touch on the heavy side for draw weight, I was able to save a lot of cash and avoid the long wait. Not bad!
Check out the update at the end of this review. I ended up taking over someone's spot in line for an early 2016 custom build and now have a truly custom-for-me Triple Carbon Elite.
All of the takedown Centaurs of recent feature a riser made of a very strong and dense material Jim calls, "Dark Matter". The material is a special kind of resin that is made up of glass fibers in a specific orientation set in epoxy, according to the website. Whatever it is, Dark Matter is tough and dense, making for a very solid bow. The material is also a jet black color, giving the bow a very cool stealth aesthetic. Picking up the bow, it is very noticeably heavier than the stock Carbon Elite that has an Actionwood riser. Part of it is from the Dark Matter, but some of the heft is from the steel pins, bushing, and bolts used in the takedown system. All together, this particular takedown feels very solid and stable. In addition to the Dark Matter, there are two accent flares on the back and belly sides of the riser. I am not sure what woods they are, but they appear to be bubinga, guessing from the color and grain. To give an idea of how much heavier the Dark Matter takedown bow is, the one-piece 58" longbow I have weighs 18 ounces, while this model weighs 28 ounces. A 10 ounce gain makes a significant difference in stability.
The back side of the grip. Here you can see the wavy lines of the laminations where the finger grooves used to be. Also, note the seam where the bow takes down.
Being that this was once a custom ordered bow, it was made to fit someone else's hand and not mine. I found that very evident in how much larger and more widely spaced the finger grooves were compared to the ones on my stock Carbon Elite Jim customized for me. That said, the grip wasn't massive, but the finger grooves did interfere with how my fingers wrapped around it, and that would likely result in some less accurate shooting. Being that I would likely not ever sell this bow, I decided to modify the grip to better suit my hand. After consulting with Jim and another bowyer, I decided to do the modification myself and simply soften the finger grooves so they would still be present, but not bothersome to my hand. Part of the impetus for modifying the grip was the finish was wearing off on some of the peaks of the grooves and other parts of the grip. There were also some scuffs and few minor dings here and there. I figured I could refinish the bow, and if I was going to do that effort, I might as well make it "my" bow and alter the grip to suit. More about how I modified the grip in the tuning section.
Note the broadhead engraving and the clean stippling lines.
Turkey tracks engraving on the palm swell and stippling make for an attractive and functional grip. Again, note the seam for the take down system.
View of the right side showing the two bolts holding everything together.
Centaur's takedown system is a bit more unique than most of the other 2-piece systems. The riser is cut lengthwise down the middle of the riser from the shelf with the cut following a sagittal plane and makes a 45 degree curve out to the side, exiting below the grip. It is kind of hard to visualize, but once you see it, it makes sense. The two halves are keyed together by way of three steel pins, and the entire assembly is secured using two bolts.
This image, taken from the Centaur website, illustrates the takedown system better than words can describe
Conceptually, this takedown system makes a lot of sense to me. Most other takedown longbows have a cut made in the middle of the riser perpendicular to the length or at an angle within a sleeve. Compared to these takedown methods, Centaur's takedown system spreads out the stresses over a wider area and among more contact points - the steel pins and the bolts. Although the system does require a hex wrench, it is by no means inconvenient to disassemble and reassemble.
One other point I would make regarding the takedown system is that it is not hidden at all. The seam where the two halves meet is visible, but not detracting from the bow's aesthetics. The two bolts are recessed into the grip, but also visible from the side at a glance. From afar, one likely could not tell the bow is a takedown. Ideally, I would prefer a hidden takedown system that is also tool-less like the sleeve socket system used by some other bowyers like Sky, Big Jim, Black Widow, etc. However, this system works and there is no chance the two halves will accidentally separate, even when the bow is unbraced. So long as the bolts are snugged down, it is a one-piece bow as far as I am concerned.
The two halves separated. Just like on the Centaur Archery website.
Aside from the carbon laminations, all Centaur longbows feature bamboo limb cores. Bamboo has been a core of choice for a number of bowyers and archers. Many feel it offers a smooth draw with a little more speed than maple cored limbs. I am not an experienced enough archer to tell the difference - just repeating some of the things I have read on various archery forums. In fact, bamboo is not a wood at all, but is a grass by definition. Whatever it is, the material works as the Centaur bows are solid shooters.
Braced profile presents as a mild R/D profile that looks good and performs wonderfully
As with the Carbon Elite, the Triple Carbon Elite is a reflex/deflex longbow. If you are unfamiliar with the term, it refers to the profile of the bow where the riser is deflexed back towards the shooter to give a better handling riser, but the limbs are reflexed forwards away from the shooter to give the bow greater performance than a straight limbed Hill style longbow. The R/D profile is more pronounced when the bow is unbraced, but even when braced, one can see how the limbs have sections where they do not follow one continuous curve like the traditional D-shape of a straight limbed longbow. This design allows greater performance, smoother draw, and a longer draw length out of a shorter bow.
Unbraced profile shows the reflexed limb design
- Tuning -
This review is the first one I have done since we moved to a larger house. In this new house, I have a basement and it is a nice long one spanning the full length of the house. Wall to wall, the basement gives me about 13 yards and giving up a yard or two for the thickness of the targets and me not standing up against the wall, I will have a good 11 or so yards to shoot with. Not too bad for a basement/mancave indoor range.
The mancave range. A few target blocks at one end and my bows at the other. If I had a good 20 yards and a taller ceiling, this would be the perfect indoor range.
With such a range available to me, I headed down to my cave once the kids were in bed and my wife was busy watching her evening TV dramas. The string that came with the bow was well used and heavily waxed up by the previous owner. I figured the heavy coat of wax was surely going to rob the bow of some performance, so I swapped it out with a new one that was also from Centaur. It is my opinion that the flemish Strings sold by Centaur are among the best, since they are made by master string maker, Rick Barbee. As a result, I often keep an extra one or two of these strings to use on my other bows. I quickly got the new string twisted up to proper brace and set up my nock locators and ran some bareshafts through the bow to ascertain my nock height.
Being that this is a 2nd handed bow, I did not have the luxury to customize the draw weight to my liking. The bow is rated 51#@28", but my digital scale indicates an average of 46#@27". I doubt Jim's scale is off and I also doubt the bow would gain 5# in the last inch of draw. I do know that bowyers often have a +/-2# tolerance in hitting the desired draw weight, so it is possible the bow is actually pulling about 49#@28". Despite my reservations about the marked draw weight, my subjective observations of it are that it does not feel like it should be 51#@28". I anticipated to see 48-49# at 27" since longbows usually gain about 2-3# per inch. At any rate, I am very pleased at the lower draw weight as I prefer my bows to scale in the low to mid 40# range so they will be able to use my existing stock of arrows and I won't get too worn out after a range session. The lower draw weight also helps me hold more steady at anchor and shoot more accurately.
The Triple Carbon Elite is cut to center and the addition of a soft sided Velcro pad for the strike plate pushes the arrow out before center. This has the effect of stiffening a given arrow and I found the bow to shoot well with my GameGetter 500 shafts. Despite being listed as a 500 spine, the actual spine measurement is .531 as listed on Easton's website. I found this arrow to work well for bows drawing in the low 40# range, but they usually end up showing weak once a bow eclipses 45#, especially at the 30" length I am using. Out of the Centaur, these arrows did show a bit weak with 125 gr. points, but the bareshafts grouped in with the fletched arrows for the most part.
Easton Legacy 2018. 20/64" diameter and 0.018" wall thickness. The wood grain finish is a nice touch.
Being a perfectionist, I decided to move up in spine and used Easton Legacy 2018 shafts. Unlike the GameGetters, the Legacy shafts are labelled according to the proper aluminum shaft 4-digit sizing. If you are unfamiliar with them, the first two digits denote the arrow outside diameter in 64ths of an inch, so 20/64" or 5/16" diameter. The second two digits denote the wall thickness in thousandths of an inch so 0.018" wall thickness. The two different parameters allow for a great deal of spine variations among the various sizes, allowing for shafts to fall "in-between" spines. The 2018 shaft size equates to a .464 spine, which ought to work out nicely with the Centaur's heavier draw weight. Having a thicker wall than the GameGetter 500 (which are actually 2016), the finished Legacy arrows averaged 540gr., giving me a nice 11.7GPP (grains per pound) load that should offer quiet shooting, but not be so heavy that the arrows fly like bricks tossed by a toddler. As usual, I use a 2-fletch system on my arrows as my own tests have shown them to fly as well as the standard 3-fletch, and offer the benefits of being more stackable in the quiver and more conservative with feathers. One other tweak I do with the Legacy arrows is to replace the swaged end with a nock bushing and use a press-in nock. To keep with the "traditional" theme, Easton makes the Legacies with the tapered nock end so that the nocks are glued-on like with wood shafts. I personally dislike glued-on nocks due to their permanence in position, so I used a pipe cutter and reamer to cut off the tapered end and hot-melt in a Super Uni Bushing so I can use the Super 3D nocks. Bareshaft testing with the Legacy shafts indicated I was right on with the point weight and stiffer spine. Using 125gr. points, bareshafts impacted exactly as fletched and flew without any wobble. The less correction the feathers have to do, the better and more accurately the arrow will fly.
The Legacy 2018 arrows used in this review. These are 2-fletch for improved shelf clearance. They stack nicer in the quiver and are more economical with feathers. I used 5" True-Flight shield cut feathers.
One thing I was not entirely certain of was tiller. The seller did not know if the bow was tillered for split of 3-under. A quick check with a bow square indicated a slight positive tiller of about 3/16", suggesting to me if was made for a split-finger shooter. Generally, an even tiller is used for a 3-under release, but the slight positive tiller shouldn't pose any issues. If anything, I would have to use a slightly higher nock height.
My first few shots were not the best, likely a combination of factors including "new bow syndrome", the higher draw weight, and the mismatched finger grooves. After a half hour of shooting, it was clear to me I needed to do something about the grip. The bow shot well if I used a finger sling and didn't let my fingers wrap around the grip, but I normally don't shoot my stickbows with a sling. Out came my Dremel and an assortment of sanding drums and sandpaper. I first attempted to soften the finger grooves so they would be less bothersome to my hand, but the grooves lined up just right where one peak was exactly where I put my middle finger. Additionally, I was able to fit my fingers in the space up to the groove for the original owner's ring finger. I have fairly small hands and I often find any kind of finger groove or palm swell added to a grip ends up being uncomfortable unless it is specifically customized for me.
A side profile shot of the 2-fletch arrow. Because it is completely flat on one plane, the arrows stack up neatly in the quiver and allow for increased capacity.
As I gradually sanded down the grooves, I decided to go all the way and reduce the grooves to the bare minimum. I cut no deeper than the groove valleys so as to not weaken the riser too much. Once the shape was roughed out to my liking, I smoothed and blended the cut areas to the rest of the riser and sprayed it down with several coats of matte clear coat lacquer. The resulting surface texture of the lacquer mirrored that of the original 2-part epoxy finish and the result is a bow that fits well in my hands and looks nice for an amateur job. There is still some hint of finger groove left, but nothing enough to bother me.
With the bow now fitting my hand, my shooting improved noticeably and I was hitting much closer to where I was aiming. Unfortunately, some of the lacquer did not adhere too well to the areas where the epoxy finish was already present, despite some light sanding and a wipe down with denatured alcohol prior to spraying. I suppose the durability and inertness of the epoxy finishes is why they are favored by many bowyers. At some point, I'll have to sand down the entire bow and refinish it with either clear Duracoat or some other catalysed finish spray.
- Shooting -
The Triple Carbon Elite is incredibly smooth for a bow of its length. This is a 58" bow that feels like a bow 4" longer. My Border Raptor is a very smooth drawing 62" longbow and the Centaur feels very similar to this, but not as smooth. The R/D bow design makes a huge difference, but a 58" bow is still 58" and will not be the same as a 62" bow. I experienced no issues with finger pinch and found the draw to be very manageable despite the listed weight.
I found the bow to put arrows right in line with how I was sighting down the shaft. I shoot with a 3-under release and my index finger at the corner of my mouth. This gives me a fairly high anchor and a very good sight using the arrow point to gap. Sometimes, I find bows that are cut before center or past center have points of impact a little to the left or right and I have to compensate in my aim. At 10 yards, I was smacking arrows together and even busted a few nocks.
Love that cavernous takedown bow pocket the Vista Maverick has. Just stow the bow and off you go!
I set up the chronograph and loosed a few of the Legacy arrows through it, averaging 167.2fps. This is with the bow shooting a 540 gr. arrow, so 11.7 GPP. This is a pretty decent load on any bow so I was not surprised by speeds in the high 160s. This time, I wanted to have a little more objective of a measure of bow speed so I measured an arrow and put a tiny piece of tape at 27". I could have placed the tape at 28", but that is just too far of a stretch for me and I felt the awkward draw would skew velocity readings. Pulling back to a true 27", speeds jumped up a tad to 169.3fps. Either I didn't fully draw to 27" or my draw length is just a touch shorter, I'm going to bet I was collapsing on the shot, shaving off a couple fps. Just goes to show how important a clicker can be for maintaining consistency in the draw and loose.
I found the heavier draw weight to be very manageable and actually comfortable to shoot. Even after a solid hour of shooting in the cave range, I felt no discomfort or fatigue. The added draw weight had the effect of snatching the string off my fingers with more authority, giving me what felt like a cleaner release. This is actually a very common effect with higher draw weights and many archers gravitate towards them for this reason. Unfortunately, with high draw weights come a greater likelihood of bad habits to accommodate said weight. I sometimes hear of archers who say they can only shoot a 70# bow because anything lighter shoots poorly. My personal opinion of that is they have poor form and a poor release more than anything else and use the heavy bow as a crutch to hide those shooting errors. A good archer can shoot a bow much lighter than their usual draw weight with the same level of accuracy, if not better. It all has to do with good form and shooting without bad habits.
A couple dozen arrows in the quiver and the bow make for a good day at the range. Or just stump shooting in the woods.
For a better appreciation of how the bow would do at a longer distance, I headed out to the same range where I tested the stock Carbon Elite one year ago. This time, I happened upon a number of other archers, all of which appeared to be hunters sighting in their compounds for the upcoming archery deer opener. Having the other people there meant I could not do the 170 yard long range shooting that I did with the Carbon Elite.
I found the 10 yard bale empty so I started myself there and waited till everyone was back at the line from pulling arrows. I already got some looks from the other guys who were curious about the lone longbowman. At 10 yards, I was piling up arrows into tight groups on the spray painted dots on the bale and felt pretty good about that distance. There was a 20 yard spot that was unused, so I made my way over there next to a compound archer who was fiddling with his sight. He seemed absorbed in the task of sight adjustment so I simply started shooting as soon as the line was back and clear. The first few shots ran low and I had to quickly make slight adjustments in my gap to put arrows where I was looking. By the second end, I was putting arrows on target and making neat groups, albeit not as tight as at 10 yards. The guy fiddling with his sight accomplished his task and looked up to see how I was doing. He remarked that my shooting was nothing short of incredible and that I could shoot so well without any sights or stabilizer. I thanked him for the kind words and replied it wasn't too difficult being that I used the tip of my arrow as a sight and once I found my gap, it was not much different than having a pin to put on the X. I continued to work my way out to 50 yards with the Centaur, discovering my point-on distance was approximately 30 yards. This was perfect for use as a hunting bow, being that I limit myself to nothing over 30 yards and often will not even dare attempt anything beyond 20. I greatly fear the risk of wounding an animal and will only take a shot when I am confident the arrow will go where I intend it to.
At 50 yards, I was gapping above the target, somewhere on the wooden frame supporting the bale. I found it humorous to hear a compound archer loose his arrow the same time as I, but hearing it impact the target much sooner than my arrow. I didn't get groups any smaller than a foot in diameter at 50 yards, and only managed to achieve that feat by sheer dumb luck. The majority of groups were easily a good foot and a half and larger. Obviously, I'm not all that good of an archer as that guy next to me had believed earlier. With my goals achieved at this range session, I unbolted the Centaur and packed it up neatly in my Maverick and headed back home. I won't be out hunting this year or likely the next, due to having young kids at home and family responsibilities, but I do plan to get back out in the woods at some point in the future. Hopefully, with my two boys as hunting buddies!
I found the 10 yard bale empty so I started myself there and waited till everyone was back at the line from pulling arrows. I already got some looks from the other guys who were curious about the lone longbowman. At 10 yards, I was piling up arrows into tight groups on the spray painted dots on the bale and felt pretty good about that distance. There was a 20 yard spot that was unused, so I made my way over there next to a compound archer who was fiddling with his sight. He seemed absorbed in the task of sight adjustment so I simply started shooting as soon as the line was back and clear. The first few shots ran low and I had to quickly make slight adjustments in my gap to put arrows where I was looking. By the second end, I was putting arrows on target and making neat groups, albeit not as tight as at 10 yards. The guy fiddling with his sight accomplished his task and looked up to see how I was doing. He remarked that my shooting was nothing short of incredible and that I could shoot so well without any sights or stabilizer. I thanked him for the kind words and replied it wasn't too difficult being that I used the tip of my arrow as a sight and once I found my gap, it was not much different than having a pin to put on the X. I continued to work my way out to 50 yards with the Centaur, discovering my point-on distance was approximately 30 yards. This was perfect for use as a hunting bow, being that I limit myself to nothing over 30 yards and often will not even dare attempt anything beyond 20. I greatly fear the risk of wounding an animal and will only take a shot when I am confident the arrow will go where I intend it to.
At 50 yards, I was gapping above the target, somewhere on the wooden frame supporting the bale. I found it humorous to hear a compound archer loose his arrow the same time as I, but hearing it impact the target much sooner than my arrow. I didn't get groups any smaller than a foot in diameter at 50 yards, and only managed to achieve that feat by sheer dumb luck. The majority of groups were easily a good foot and a half and larger. Obviously, I'm not all that good of an archer as that guy next to me had believed earlier. With my goals achieved at this range session, I unbolted the Centaur and packed it up neatly in my Maverick and headed back home. I won't be out hunting this year or likely the next, due to having young kids at home and family responsibilities, but I do plan to get back out in the woods at some point in the future. Hopefully, with my two boys as hunting buddies!
- Final Thoughts -
"Very cool!", were the first words that came to my mind when I cut the packing tape, opened the box, and picked up the bow. About a year since receiving the stock Carbon Elite, I had now taken ownership of the flagship model Centaur offers. This was one bow that I had put on the bucket list early on and now it can be crossed off. Well, sort of. To be honest, I'd like to have a true custom Triple Carbon Elite that Jim made specifically to my specifications and not to someone else's, but for the time being, this is plenty good and should keep me out of trouble so that I can get in queue for a new one! Perhaps....
Despite the ill-fitting grip, the bow performed very well and did even better once the grip was customized to my liking. The takedown system is innovative and will come in handy when headed out in the field or just to the range. I usually do not take down my bows unless necessary, but having that ability is very handy when one least expects. While it isn't tool-less, it is a very strong system that would likely be the last part of the bow to ever fail.
Even as a used bow that needed a little customization, it met all my expectations. Considering the 15+ month wait for a custom bow, I think I lucked out in that someone had one he was interested in selling the same time I was looking, and the specs were very close to what I was looking for. If I were to get in queue for a custom bow from Jim, I would likely request a non-stippled grip with a higher wrist, no finger grooves, and even tiller. Additionally, I would probably ask for a draw weight a few pounds less, just so the arrows would tune in a little better. Overall, I am very pleased with the bow and glad the timing of everything worked out just right.
*** 3/2/2016 Update ***
Since having acquired the Centaur in this review, I got lucky and came across a listing on the ArcheryTalk classifieds that someone was selling their spot in line for a custom longbow. The spot was coming due early 2016, so I jumped on the opportunity to have a truly custom Centaur made to my specifications.
It was around mid-February 2016 when I talked to Jim about the custom build. Having shot the triple carbon bow, I knew I wanted another one, but with a grip that suited my hand. In talking with Jim, I also discovered he offered foam cores, which are not featured on the website. Being partial to foam, I requested those and a high wrist grip. To facilitate the grip design, I submitted to Jim both a tracing of my hand along with measurements. Surprisingly, it turns out he and I have nearly identically sized hands! I also emailed him a few photos of the Dryad Epic riser that has what I feel to be among the best grips out there. Additionally, I requested bocote trim on the limb tips and grip cap for a little aesthetic touch. I never really got into trying to make my bows look like works of art. I was always of the "form follows function" mindset and preferred a bow that performed better than it looked.
Note the difference in wrist height between the two. My custom is on the left an the 2nd-handed one is on the right.
I was surprised a couple weeks later when Jim gave me a call and told me the bow was in the final steps and he was now working on the grip. I was not expecting him to be so far along in the process already. We talked in detail about the grip and what I was looking for. Since we have nearly identical hand sizes, I felt pretty confident he could sculpt it into something very comfortable. He even followed up with some photos of the grip while in-progress to get my input. I certainly did not expect this level of thoroughness from him, but it was very much appreciated.
An archer's perspective of the grips. Note how much slimmer the throat is on my custom on the left.
The Centaur landed on my doorstep in a sturdy PVC tube with PVC caps securely duct taped together. I always appreciate it very much when a bowyer goes through the trouble to pack a bow in PVC. I've heard many a horror story (and seen photos) of bows that arrived damaged or in pieces even when well packed, but in a cardboard box. I've even seen photos of one person's bow that looked like it was ran over by a vehicle. The white box had what looked like tire tracks on it! While PVC probably wouldn't stand up to being backed over by a delivery truck, it does add a good measure of durability to the package and greatly helps secure the precious contents within.
I had a feeling of deja-vu when I cut the tape on the cap and pulled out my custom Centaur. The bow was neatly tied in a 2-piece soft case along with the extra strings I had ordered. I could smell the freshly cured finish as I untied the string and pulled out the bow. I couldn't help but smile as I finally had in my hands a truly custom Centaur Triple Carbon Elite in my hands. The first stock Carbon Elite was great, the 2nd-handed take-down was even better, and this one is over the moon. Third time really is the charm!
The brothers Centaur. My custom is on the left, the 2nd-handed is in the middle, and the stock bow is on the right.
Assembling the bow was not the easiest. Being brand new, the fit of the alignment pins was tight and I really had to give it a good squeeze to approximate the two halves together. Once I had the halves together as best as I could, I hand threaded the bolts as far as they would go and tightened everything all the way down. The seam between the halves was very thin and barely noticeable. The laminations lined up pretty much perfectly. From a master bowyer like Jim, I would expect no less. The added material Jim used for the grip also had the added benefit of adding more mass to the bow. Compared to the 2nd-handed bow, this one is about an ounce and a half heavier.
Note the near-perfect alignment of the laminations between the two halves. The yellow lams on the back and belly are the bocote accents. The white lams are the foam cores.
As for the grip, I have only one word: amazing. I thought I had found my ideal grip with the Dryad risers and the wonderful pistol type grips from Border in the Covert Hunter and Raptor. However, those were stock grips from Dryad and Border. None of them had taken any measurements or tracings of my hand nor did any of them ever send me photos along the way. The grip Jim sculpted for me is like no other. It feels like a good blend of the Dryad and Border grips into one that is sized to fit my hand. The throat is slim, the wrist support is of a medium-high height, and there is a thumb rest. Additionally, there are no finger grooves or any stippling - just the way I like it. Unfortunately, I think I have now been very much spoiled in the sense that no other production bow or riser will come close to duplicating Jim's craftsmanship.
Can you see takedown seam? My photo isn't the best, but even in person, it is hard to see.
The specs of the new Centaur are similar to the 2nd-handed one I reviewed: 58" AMO, 45#@27". The performance of the earlier Centaur was certainly not lacking, and it helped build me up to shooting a few pounds more than what I normally did. Basically, I wanted a similar bow but with a grip that suited me. I also requested the sight window to be cut further past center to be accommodating to a wider spine range of arrows. Tiller on the bow was left to about 1/8" positive. Jim told me he usually runs a 1/8" positive tiller and he finds that works equally well for split-finger or 3-under releases. Both the stock and 2nd-handed Centaurs had positive tiller and shot very nicely, so I'll just stick with what worked.
To say Jim delivered is an understatement. He did a marvelous job putting together what I feel to be my ultimate 2-piece longbow. Being someone who is finicky about the grip, I believe I have found the bowyer who can make me a grip that meets my high expectations. Triple carbon construction, perfect grip, convenient takedown system, and superb performance. There is a reason for the year+ wait for one of these beauties. I can truly appreciate why.
So there we have it. I went up the step ladder of starting with a stock Carbon Elite, then snagged a nice used Triple Carbon takedown, then managed to take someone's spot in line to get a truly custom-for-me Triple Carbon takedown. All of which happened in about the time it would take to sit in the queue from beginning to end. Funny. Once I shot the stock Carbon Elite, I knew I was going to eventually progress to getting a full custom Triple Carbon model. I just never expected it to happen in such a fashion and in such rapid progression. At any rate, I am happy it did. Centaur longbows are excellent performers and Jim is an outstanding bowyer to work with.
Comments
I’ve only owned two stick bows..my bamboo left hand Bear Paws Bows made in Montana by Neil J...55#..is a little bit too heavy with my shoulder issues....